CC Sabathia Wins 250th Major League Game

CC Sabathia won his 250th major league game, which, if he wasn’t already assured a place in the Hall of Fame, has assured him a place in the Hall of Fame.  250 career wins is almost certainly the contemporary 300 career win standard that guaranteed any pitcher (major scandals excepted) a spot in the Hall of Fame.

Future pitchers will win 250 games.  Justin Verlander will likely do it in 2021 or 2022, but it is certainly debatable whether any pitcher will again win 300 games.

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7 Comments on “CC Sabathia Wins 250th Major League Game”

  1. brgcorbett Says:

    I’ve posted on “…is Sabathia deserving of HOF…” many times on various boards and my feeling is no. He does not have the credentials in terms of individual contribution in comparison with his peers or others who are no longer eligible. That said; the writers are not really concerned with SABR metrics. They will vote based on counting stats and big numbers accumulated over time.

    I agree that 250 is the new 300. With the current utilization of the starter role, we’ll not see another 300 game winner.

    • Burly Says:

      Mike Mussina is in the HOF by virtue of having won 270 career games. His career resume is less impressive than Sabathia’s but for the 270 career wins.

  2. brgcorbett Says:

    Sabathia’s record is far short of Mussina’s credentials:

    From a high level we can start with cumulative value. Here is the line:
    Wins ERA+ WS
    Mussina 270 123 271 = 664
    Sabathia 250 117 238 = 604

    For the highest rated 27 starting pitchers between 1982-2016, the average ERA + is 123. CC doesn’t even make average among the very best. Not HOF material

    Again comparing contribution against opportunity:

    Sabathia’s line

    Total WS (qualifying seasons,min 162 IP) 215/15 =14.33,…Games Started 474/15 = 31.60,…14.33/31.60 = a ‘winning %” of .453

    Now Mussina’s

    259/16 = 16.18,…497/16 =31.06 16.18/31.06 = .520

    Again,for the best 27 the average ‘winning %’ is .526. Sabathia is far short of the mark

    Of the best 27, Seven are in the HOF including Mussina. Of the 20 who are not,… here is the 10 highest rated:

    Clemens .644
    Santana .621
    Schilling .601
    Saberhagen .588
    Cone .551
    Brown .543
    Oswalt .541
    Appier .512
    Key .505
    Lee .503

    At the risk of ganging up, but to satisfy curiosity

    The 2nd set of 10 with Sabathia inserted for comparison:

    Gooden .487
    Leiter 486 (as a starter)
    Viola .480
    Langston .480
    Hudson .476
    Finley .461
    Sabathia .453
    Buehrle .447
    Colon .437
    Hershiser .436
    Pettitte .434

    Of course this not a surprise because we already know that CC has never had great career value

    Let’s turn then to peak value which aside from longevity is Sabathia’s strength. To do this we’ll use Win Shares Above Bench (WSAB)

    Here is the comparison against his peers who played a majority of their careers during CC’s career span

    Santana 14.9 /5 seasons
    Halladay 14.3 /8 seasons HOF
    Oswalt 12.7 /5 seasons
    Lee 12.1 /6 seasons
    Sabathia 11.8 /7 seasons
    Hudson 10.8 /8 seasons
    Buehrle 9.4 /7 seasons
    Pettitte 9.2 /8 seasons
    Colon 9.0 /10 seasons

    middle of the pack among his peers, and this is his strength!

    Back to Mussina. His peak was 10.8 just below CC’s. However here’s the thing Mussina’s peak was over 12 Years! to Sabathia’s 7

    Basically to be considered for the HOF you must have both a significant career vale as well as a significant peak value. Mussina has both. That is why he is in the Hall. Sabathia falls short of the minimum for consideration so he is not deserving

    Now to fair there are 2 inductees of recent times Catfish Hunter and Jack Morris who should not have gotten in. However another wrong does not make it right 🙂

    • Burly Says:

      For what it’s worth, fangraphs says that for their careers, Mussina was worth 81.2 WAR, while Sabathia was only worth 66.6 WAR. However, in terms of what HOF voters have typically voted on, I’d be willing to bet that Sabathia is elected to the HOF at least as soon as the 11 years after retirement that it took Mussina. Sabathia will be helped by the facts that he won a World Series ring and a Cy Young award, neither of which Mussina accomplished.

      • brgcorbett Says:

        The argument stands. In terms of individual contribution to their respective teams ability to win games Mussina, in this case, has had a more valuable career and is deserving of the HOF .By the same token Sabathia just doesn’t measure up in any true evaluation of individual performance compared to his peers or many of those who have pitched in the past 35 years or so.

        Remember World series rings are a team accomplishment not an individual one

        In 2007 Josh Beckett actually had the slightly better record however the voters gave the node to CC for having pitched more innings

        In total CC had 5 top 5 finishes. Mussina had 6 plus 2 more at sixth

        All that said the BWAA’s really only look at counting stats when voting players into the HOF. This means that Sabathia will more than likely get voted in at some point during his term of eligibility. Hopefully not before more deserving careers get their due

        Cliff Lee is eligible next year and Tim Hudson in 2021. It will be interesting to see what percentage of the voting that each of these 2 candidates get compared to Sabathia when he becomes eligible in 2025, or if either of them will still be left on the ballot by then.

        Meanwhile CC had better get in before Verlander, Greinke, Scherzer Hamels,Hernandez,and Kershaw come along or his chances will be slim.

      • Burly Says:

        I will be very surprised if CC has not been elected to the HOF by his sixth year of eligibility.


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